The Wheelmen
The Wheelmen
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 General Discussion
 Wheelmen Talk
 Corbin & New Departure Hub Dating
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

David Toppin

USA
3802 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  13:44:00  Show Profile  Send David Toppin a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
There is a thread going on at the CABE. It would be great if you could contribute anything you may know.

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?34160-Corbin-amp-New-Departure-Hub-Dating-Project-Need-everyone-s-help-pre-1933&p=184011

Here is the posting:

Corbin & New Departure Hub Dating Project - Need everyone's help pre-1933
There always seem to be lot's of questions around hub production years so I thought I'd start a new thread where we can all work together to try to establish a timeline for all the various Corbin & New Departure Hubs for pre-1933 bikes. I'll try to update this initial post as new data is added by adding to both the hub lists as well as an earliest date, current known ad date, and last date. My thoughts were as we all see data in either ads or catalogs, we can add dates at a minimum or pics of the ads if available. I'll also add new hubs everyone identifies as I certainly don't know them all. So here's the start:

Rear Hubs:
New Departure Model C - earliest 1927; last 1933
New Departure Model A - earliest 1908 (dated NOS example, pelletman); known 1908 - 1918; last 1926
New Departure Model R Rear "Road" Hubs - earliest ?; known 1918; last ?
Corbin Two-Speed Brake Model 10 - earliest ?; known 1913 & 1918; last ?
Corbin Duplex Coaster Brake Model 9 - earliest ?; known 1913 & 1918; last ?
New Departure Duplex, Corbin Screw Corp. - earliest ?; known ad 1905; last
Corbin Model No. 26 (no coaster brake) - earliest ?; known ad 1905; last ?



Front Hubs:
New Departure Model SM - earliest 1927; last 1933
New Departure Model M - earliest ?; known 1913 & 1918; last ?
Corbin Model No. 16 - earliest ?; known ad 1905; last ?



I'll start going through my ads & catalogs tonight to see what else I can add, but will need everyone who can to participate. I would like to keep this to data from ads & catalogs so we can document these dates. Hubs on dated bikes can also be added as possible dates but I think hard dated ads and catalogs will be better as hubs did get changed out on many old bikes. Detailed pics of known hubs would also be a plus here on this thread as would exploded views of hub components to help people with repairs. Thanks for your help on this project I know can help many of us as we restore these great bicycles.

Andrew Gorman

USA
586 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  14:49:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is some information I dug up a couple of years ago:
I had a few minutes to troll through Google Books and found a few dates for the introduction and production of these hubs. Most of these dates came from magazine advertisements and some trade journal articles. Definitely not authoritative, but a start

Model A - Earliest mention 1906, still advertised in 1917

Model B - The mysterious Model B was a heavy duty hub for motorcycles and tandems

Model C - The "New Model C" was advertised in 1928

Model D - The "New Model D" was advertised in 1934. I have seen this date before the introduction of the model D.

Hopefully this quickly researched information will be some help, but I'm sure there was a lot of overlap as supplies of hubs on hand were used up, and/or sold as replacements. By the way, bicycles and accessories were constantly advertised in Boys Life, which are "full view" on Google Books.

Atherton coaster brake:
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?10420-Atherton-Coaster-Brake-dates&highlight=atherton
Go to Top of Page

David Toppin

USA
3802 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  19:38:37  Show Profile  Send David Toppin a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Andrew!
Go to Top of Page

Bill Smith

USA
62 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  22:33:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave,
Great post on hubs. I have searched through my Iver Johnson and Lovell Diamond catalogs with many of the early ones containing a lot of bicycle sundries. The 1903, the Lovell Diamond Bicycle Supplies Catalog shows the Model A the first time, calling it the 1903 Model. I was able to track the Model A through to 1926. In 1920, the Lovell Diamond catalog shows a Model C for the first time. I think this Model must have ran through 1933. In a 1934 Ward's Catalog, I found what they call the new Model D brake hub in nickel finish. They claimed it had 90% braking surface than the old model which apparently was the Model C. If you compare the Model C and D, it is very evident that the D has many more braking washers than the C, giving a much better braking ability. The 1936 Ward's Catalog now has the Model D in a chrome finish. After 1959, the Mattatuck brought out New Departure and lasted until the mid-sixties.
Dave,
Great post on hubs. I have searched through my Iver Johnson and Lovell Diamond catalogs with many of the early ones containing a lot of bicycle sundries. The 1903, the Lovell Diamond Bicycle Supplies Catalog shows the Model A the first time, calling it the 1903 Model. I was able to track the Model A through to 1926. In 1920, the Lovell Diamond catalog shows a Model C for the first time. I think this Model must have ran through 1933. In a 1934 Ward's Catalog, I found what they call the new Model D brake hub in nickel finish. They claimed it had 90% braking surface than the old model which apparently was the Model C. If you compare the Model C and D, it is very evident that the D has many more braking washers than the C, giving a much better braking ability. The 1936 Ward's Catalog now has the Model D in a chrome finish. After 1959, the Mattatuck brought out New Departure and lasted until the mid-sixties.




Bill
Go to Top of Page

David Toppin

USA
3802 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  06:27:24  Show Profile  Send David Toppin a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
That is great, I think the earliest we had with Model A was 07 up til now
Go to Top of Page

bjd.

USA
1497 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  18:05:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave, You should talk to my dad, Jack Dizer. He had a bike shop when he was in his teens in the early thirties and worked on most of those hubs and has pretty good memories of them and their history. I think the ND "A" is a bit older-about 1900 or so.

Bill Dizer
Go to Top of Page

David Toppin

USA
3802 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2012 :  19:47:46  Show Profile  Send David Toppin a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
We've got it back to 1903 thanks to Bill Smith Bill. Do you want to ask you dad what memories he has of them? That would be awesome if you could record what he knows..
Go to Top of Page

George Garrettson

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2012 :  15:13:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 1901 Pierce catalog says (paraphrase) that last year (1900) your bicycle had a New Departure coaster brake. The machining was not up to our standards. We have acquired the patent rights and this year (1901) your bicycle has a Pierce New Departure coaster brake. To me this says that the Model A New Departure brake started in 1900 or before.
Go to Top of Page

Jerry Grulkey

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2012 :  11:45:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very interesting subject and this is what the forum's all about. I have a very rare "Toledo" coaster brake from 1901. I got this many years ago (1958) from the fellow who bought it new. It is on a "Toledo all Metal Wheel" bike. Remember boys and girls make sure you do not grease the disks on a model "D"...just #20 oil.
Go to Top of Page

Jerry Grulkey

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2012 :  11:50:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interestingly the disc clutch/brake invention was and still is used in automatic transmissions and manual automotive usage as well as many other innovations. I was under the impression that "New Departure" started by making Cyclometers first. The also made many parts and bearings for the auto industry.

Edited by - Jerry Grulkey on 12/02/2012 11:52:47
Go to Top of Page

Jerry Grulkey

USA
521 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2012 :  14:49:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iv'e never seen a Model A that was chrome plated but I have seen model D's that were nickel. For general purposes chrome plating was introduced around 1927 with the major manufactures switching over completely by 1929 or 1930. This is a fairly good yardstick for products although not a hard and fast rule as some have used nickel for special effects and even today's hardware has revived the brushed nickel look.

Jerry Grulkey
Go to Top of Page

David Toppin

USA
3802 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2012 :  15:49:24  Show Profile  Send David Toppin a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
George, the 1900 Pierce catalog I am reading offers the Morrow for $7.50 additional.. 1901 has the Pierce New Departure brake for $5.00 additional, but they aren't badmouthing the earlier year. Perhaps there were two catalogs for 1901
Go to Top of Page

bjd.

USA
1497 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2012 :  17:18:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I talked to my dad last week about the coaster brake hubs and his memory is that the first coasters were about 1898, with the ND"A" at 1899-1900, and the corbin about the same. He worked on lots of them in the early thirties, but said he didn't see many if any of the later ones-no one in rural Vermont had them or they had not broken yet. He is 91 now. Sturmey archer came out with 3speed coaster brake hubs in the early teens- 1913 or so.

Bill Dizer
Go to Top of Page

David Toppin

USA
3802 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2012 :  22:27:12  Show Profile  Send David Toppin a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
1898 is right for the first coasters showing up in catalogs and on bikes. Columbia seems to have been the first, which would make sense, both ND and Pope were in CT. Corbin and ND were working together.

In a side note, the house we are pictured in front of here in Oak Bluffs was the summer home of the Corbin family

http://webpages.charter.net/pelletman/Vineyard%202010.htm
Go to Top of Page

Admin

314 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  17:35:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just came across this last night. It seems to backup my theory that the New Departure Model A hub did come out for the 1903 model year.

Attached is a page from the November 13, 1902 Iron Age Magazine. It talks about the new model 1903 New Departure hub which is known as the Model A hub.

Hope this helps,
Bill

http://www.thewheelmen.org/forum_images/2012/hubs.pdf

Go to Top of Page

David Toppin

USA
3802 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  19:57:20  Show Profile  Send David Toppin a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Model A appears in 1901 Pierce catalog.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
The Wheelmen © 2001-2017 The Wheelmen. All Rights Reserved Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.04